Is it just me?

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Originally posted by Dyan:
I don't get it. What is there about this fan base and that man that got under my skin??? I SWEAR, I'm a perfectly normal person with a firm grasp on reality. And yet ....... *sighs*

You guys won't understand what I'm saying in this ramble, and I realize that. But the thing is that I just deleted two posts on two different boards. Why? They were perfectly good posts, and I think that I have a point. Frankly, I think that I'm right. And they weren't causing trouble or fights. And yet somehow pointing out what seems obvious to me seemed also somehow the wrong thing to do.

It was about the recent articles in Australia about how Sony US didn't want to release the cd because it's supposedly too explicit and sexual. And the thing is that I posted and then it nagged me .......... somehow it seemed unfair for me to ...... I dunno how to explain this ...... maybe the word that I'm looking for is "counter". Maybe it's unfair of me to counter what other fans want or need to believe and what Darren's public relations team may want out in the media. Damn, that's not the right word either.

WHY do I even care??? It's not like my opinions change anyone's mind or that anyone (ie Darren's team or even him) could care less what I of all people think. And yet ............ damn if it didn't seem wrong on my part to be openly cyncial and blunt.

People need to believe something. And if that something helps to explain Darren's absence in the US or lets his fans feel better about the state of things (or even Darren himself; hell, I don't know what he needs to believe), then maybe I should let that be.

<font color="#9966FF"><font size="1">[ March 06, 2005 09:01 PM: Message edited by: Dyan ]</font></font>

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<font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Dyan, I'm not sure if I've understood you right here, but I read a couple of your posts on other boards about the release of TTATS in the US and I think you have probably hit the nail on the head when you referred back to Spin. It makes complete sense from Sony's POV that if Spin didn't sell well in the US, then they're obviously going to be reluctant to release TTATS.

I think we're all looking for reasons to believe things, but I think ultimately most of it comes down to a purely business angle. SG did well in the US because they sold heaps of CD's over there. I don't think there's any major conspiracy afoot, it just purely and academically down to money.

Maybe we're simply guilty of nothing more than wanting things the way they were and wishing like heck some things could have been done differently. It's human nature to want to look for reasons as to why things happen. I hope I've understood you right here Dyan, I apologise in advance if I've misconstrued your post.

Janie xx

<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ March 07, 2005 06:06 AM: Message edited by: DarrensPassion ]</font>

Dyan I too read your post about sales of Spin. If thats what you are talking about I agree with you as well. It was spot on. It more than likely is the exact reason.. In sales terms hes not happening. I think radio wise of course the taint of possible being associated with "homesexual" thing may come into play.

You cant make people listen and buy an album. You can force it.. it just has to happen. Seems with SG it happened one of those things unexplained. You cant say why exactly but it just did.

I too don't know what it is about Darren and this fandom that takes sane people and makes us into this lol. I guess its another one of those unexplainable mysteries.

Kat

Interesting post Dyan. It made me think. I really do think people should be allowed to believe what they want to believe but the sad thing is we should all still be able to express our thoughts. Would you have ever second guessed those posts in the old days? We used to post that kind of stuff all the time...people agreed or disagreed but it was all ok.

Perhaps it is just that that is missing. Too many battles have transpired perhaps and people are just "battle worn"?

Janie, I think you have what I meant. And yes, Steen, we are all simply drops in the sea. And yet ....... *smiles* You know me. hehe I have this silly belief that every drop carries within it the power to change the very sea itself. I also think that there is something to the idea that the energy that we put out into the universe matters. But that's not what motivated me last night. LOL

The thing is that what I had posted (as true as I still think it was) seemed mean. I'm not sure why because I certainly didn't intend it in a mean spirit and based on your replies, it didn't come across as mean. but still ....

It felt like I was kicking something that was already down. And also, I've come to realize just how important it is to fans to believe. It might be nothing more than the image we create as we listen to the music or perhaps a fantasy that we carry in our heads or the hope as Janie says that things can be what they once were. I think that an important part of being a fan is having that ability to simply believe. And I guess that I felt that I was taking from that belief without having anything to offer. Plus, as I said, it felt sort of like kicking something after it's already down. Between the two ......... I was uncomfortable with my words.

<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ March 07, 2005 06:54 PM: Message edited by: Dyan ]</font>

Dyan, I think you did a very noble thing. I've been mulling this over for about a week now, just because of something I encountered, and perhaps you're right that other fans have to believe everything is alright, and that to feel differently isn't constructive. The strange part is that despite the huge differences in this fanbase, whatever we all believe and how long we've existed as fans (SG or solo), the one thing that underlies it all is that none of us particularly want Darren to fail, or for the music which touches people on so many levels to be so universally ignored. I think everywhere there are discussions as to what is happening behind the scenes (to qualify, I mean the way in which the music industry works, not particularly Darren's management or the fan club side of things) and why the support of this album from the record company seems so half-hearted. The basic problem now is the whole no airplay-no single sales-no album sales-no possibility for tours cycle which we're stuck in, and to be honest, I don't see an easy resolution to it all. The whole ambiguous lyrics explanation, though very interesting in itself, seems a lame excuse for not releasing an album...and if I'm not mistaken, even a beautiful song like Insatiable could be interpreted either way, depending on how you see things. I wonder if anyone in the industry is willing to take a risk any more, and if they're not, then lord help us, it's just going to get blander and more teeny orientated.

Well now......... I'm not sure that feeling different isn't constructive. After all, it's exactly as you and others on this board have often said -- people get to feel how they want to feel. AND we should get to say what we feel too.

Hum. Damned hard balance.

Btw, noble? Thank you for saying that. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ March 07, 2005 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Dyan ]</font>

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Originally posted by Dyan:
And yes, Steen, we are all simply drops in the sea. And yet ....... *smiles* You know me. hehe I have this silly belief that every drop carries within it the power to change the very sea itself. I also think that there is something to the idea that the energy that we put out into the universe matters.

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<font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">i don't think that's silly at all ^_^

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Originally posted by Dyan:
Well now......... I'm not sure that feeling different isn't constructive. After all, it's exactly as you and others on this board have often said -- people get to feel how they want to feel. AND we should get to say what we feel too.

Hum. Damned hard balance.

Btw, noble? Thank you for saying that. [img]smile.gif[/img]

<font color="#9966FF"><font size="1">[ March 07, 2005 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Dyan ]</font></font>

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<font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">I think right now I'm just a bit jaded generally and am learning the lessons of saying what I think. It's very hard sometimes when you set out with one intention and have somebody jump on you and twist your words...but there we go, the wonderful facelessness of the internet at work as ever. It's made me think so hard about what I'm saying that half the time I end up not saying anything. Good lesson in stopping to think though!

I get what you are saying Dyan. Its like who am I to be the bitch about it all.

If people want to see the glass half full instead of half emtpy. I shouldnt always be the one pointing out the empty scenario. Not that I do. But I do tend to think that way mindwise first.

Though I do think a balanced argument is always good. All the facts and speculations as we know them put out on the table and draw your conclusions for that be they good or bad.

I guess I have to look back on myself. I remember when SG were on that infamous hiatus. People would come along and say have they split and sure sounds like it. Well really looking back at it a valid argument could of been put forward with all the facts pointing to the fact they had. But me in my absolute belief in them, truly beleived it wasnt so. I thought they would sit down together discuss the issues and come to amicable conclusion and then ever so nicely inform the fanbase. LMAO@me!!!
I believed that or needed to believe it and noone could come along and tell me otherwise.

Kat

I must admit that I knew SG had split up by the time I found the SG website (Feb. 2001) when the hiatus notice was posted there. I had previously read about their demise in my Sunday Express newspaper just before Xmas, at the end of the Affirmation tour so I never doubted for one minute that they hadn't split up. All I remember thinking is that I hadn't been able to get tickets for their concert and now I never would have the chance to seem them perform live [img]graemlins/cry.gif[/img]

All it said was that Darren wanted to continue to go it alone so I held on to that one thought that I would eventually at least get to see Darren peform solo which obviously I now have.

I found it very odd that the split came as so much of a surprise to the majority of the fanbase when it was officially announced on 5th October 2001, because in my mind they had already broken up nearly a year before!

Janie xx

I'm with Kat, how i thought they would never just break up like that, in such a silly manner. I thought there would be, at the very least, some sort of press conference or release or even website/journal entry to give the fans a proper headsup... not some gossipy rag article *sigh* We'd spent years ignoring all sorts of strange rumours, break up rumours or not, so it was very surprising to see that particular rumour confirmed. People could see that as denial but i honestly didn't see any concrete proof that made me think they were breaking up. I'd chalked up whispers about Darren and Daniel not getting along as the talk of those who enjoy drama or even as slash talk LOL I thought it was just Affa tour tension, it would get better after a nice break. More the fool i then *chuckle*

I read the very same article as Janie so the official announcement of their split came as no surprise to me either. However, prior knowledge didn't make that news any easier to hear....

*has been playing a lot of SG lately* [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

Well, this is what I believed:


Darren
posted 11-21-2000 03:18 PM
Topic: Space Hugs Shock the Monkey
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All this talk of solo.. solo schmolo.
The band has not split up.

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Just to expand on that message:

All this talk of solo.. solo schmolo.
The band has not split up.
Of course I'm doing my own record next but that's something I can't even imagine at the moment. It's in my 'to do' list... eventually. Haha.. I think I'm going to take the biggest vacation and really appreciate my family and life..It's taking all my energy to give 100% of myself to Affirmation and the final shows of this incredible tour. I really am giving it up for the fans at the moment as you deserve the best.

Maybe Darren really really hoped when he posted that, that the hiatus would not be a permanent state of affairs and that he and Daniel would eventually get around to making the 3rd SG album? When I first read about the split in that newspaper, it was before I had any internet access, so I only had that press report to base my feelings on. It was only after I was able to get on-line and read Darren's posts and all the other articles pertaining to the split that I had a much bigger view of what had been going on.

I am of the opinion that Darren still believed that SG would ultimately reform after he and Dan had done their solo projects, right up to 5th October 2001, that is until Cameron Adams posted that article and then Dan gave his side of things.

Janie xx

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Originally posted by DarrensPassion:

I am of the opinion that Darren still believed that SG would ultimately reform after he and Dan had done their solo projects, right up to 5th October 2001, that is until Cameron Adams posted that article and then Dan gave his side of things.

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<font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I remember correctly it was Darren who gave the interview stating that the band had split even before the Affa tour and it was Daniel who said he believed there would be another album ?!?

I guess that maybe it's that I'm more of the 'glass is half empty' initial mindset or maybe it's my age (I've seen far too many bands come and go), but I knew almost from the first announcement of the "break" that this was a permenant split. And perhaps that's why the "why did he say that" aspect of Darren's comments never bothered me........ I suppose that I never believed his denials.

But the thing was that I felt badly for Darren. Yes, it was his words and his credibility that was on the line when he posted what he did at SavageFan. And yes, it was his choice to take on the majority of the publicity work within the band. And yet, my mouth has gotten me into trouble too many times in my life (and will many times to come before I die) to point the finger too badly at him. So I never knew or honestly cared what his motives were -- was it saying what he knew the press and fans wanted or was it denial on his part of the reality facing him. But I DID know how it felt to put your neck on the line and do something (maybe with the purest motives or maybe hoping to play the "game") only to have it blow up in your face.

BUT it was Darren's words and his image that people believed. And I don't think it was unexpected or silly for any of us to have believed him. Call me naive, but even Darren went out of his way in interviews and the like to say that we could believe what came out of his lips (remember that quote about not believing what we read; but rather what came from his lips?). So Kat, it's understandable that people like you and Steen and others trusted that Darren and Dan would treat us like the "cool and intelligent" fans that Darren kept telling us that we were and to believe his words. I think that fact got lost in all the blame that fans put on each other in how we handled each other's reactions over the split.

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I posted this, watched a bit of tv and realized as I was heading to bed ........ I guess that I did care what Darren's motives were afterall. I must have believed that they were good motives or I would have been questioning more. But having a core belief (yep, there's that word again ........ fans need to believe lol) that Darren is a good man who didn't intentionally mislead people is what allowed me to simply accept that he had said what he did in interviews and posts even though I didn't believe that what he said was 100% truthful.

<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ March 08, 2005 11:57 PM: Message edited by: Dyan ]</font>

Well...kind of an interesting turn in the thread...everyone telling what they believed.

I always thought that they had no clue when or if the next SG album would happen when they went to hiatus status (which I believe actually came from one of Darren's posts as well...I think he used the term "when or if"...but I could be remembering wrong as well).

The surprise to me was that anything was announced. I didn't expect that.

I guess I think there were things that transpired after the last day of the Affirmation tour that changed things...business kind of things. Just my opinion but I don't think Darren spent much time thinking about the business side of things and I think that maybe came after some of those posts he made. I guess I still think he believed in what he was saying at the time he said it in all those posts.

As to permanent...who knows....but time does interesting things when it comes to bands. History has shown that often. I would not be surprised if they never worked together again but I would equally not be surprised if they did. When there is chemistry once, it comes up again sometimes.

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Originally posted by xNicx:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by DarrensPassion:

I am of the opinion that Darren still believed that SG would ultimately reform after he and Dan had done their solo projects, right up to 5th October 2001, that is until Cameron Adams posted that article and then Dan gave his side of things.

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<font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">If I remember correctly it was Darren who gave the interview stating that the band had split even before the Affa tour and it was Daniel who said he believed there would be another album ?!?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="3" face="Tempus sans ITC, Papyrus,Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Yep you're right Darren was the one who gave the interview, and to this day I don't know what prompted Darren to say what he did but it was obvious he wasn't expecting that interview to be released when it was. I really don't want to get into the who's right, who's wrong scenario with all this again, but I can only assume there must have been other communications or maybe even the lack of them, going on between those two under the surface which ultimately prompted Darren into saying what he did, and possibly led to misinterpretations of what the other really wanted. I think he must have still have been feeling very hurt and angry over the split and simply decided to call it quits. I remember there being quite some confusion over Daniel's remarks that he then said he had hoped SG would make another album together. Somewhere along the line, wires got crossed, feelings were hurt and words were spoken which have now gone down in history as being believed as the definitive story of what happened.

I'm certainly not blaming either one of them and to be honest I am only really thinking my thoughts out loud. I just found it incredibly sad that it all ended the way it did.

Janie xx

I suppose what makes it all so confusing NOW is that Darren has said that the whole split thing was Bulls**t and that it was blown out of all proportion by the press...and the situation is 'never say never' to another album at this current stage in time.

I find it very interesting that John Woodruff chose to send the Today show to the US to talk to Darren after the news broke. There must have been a reason why he did that, I suppose it was so that Darren could give his side of the story properly.

I wish Daniel the best of luck with his new venture. I've got the utmost respect for the fact that he saw the potential in Darren and helped make him a star. And yet part of me wonders now how easy it will be for him to repeat that success with others. Having a good voice and song-writing ability is one thing, but having the rawness and gifts lyrically, musically and the emotion that are Darren's biggest strengths is possibly a different thing entirely. Even though I wasn't there to see the band together, it is still completely obvious that a musical chemistry like that wouldn't be an easy thing to emulate or reproduce deliberately. Guess that was one shooting star that burned out far too soon, sadly.

Yeah I was a bit of an innocent. Whenever Darren spoke it really spoke to me you know. Its not so much that I thought they would be the forever band deal. I didnt know if the hiatus was just that or really meaning over. I just honestly didnt believe it would go down the way it did. I always emphasised to people who would post that they would communicate together and make a joint decision based on mutual needs etc. Then they would make a joint statement that wrapped it all up nicely even if sadly for us. That it went down the way it did.. It was kind of like a complete bomb exploding in the fanbase. I am not blaming any of them for it but at the same time blaming them both. Lack of communication when they always were about communication anyhow anway. It seemed the only people they couldnt communicate with was each other.

Liek Dyan said we were primed as intelligent fans who didnt believe what we read. As for the solo shmolo line, I am sure he believed that as his truth at the time and so did I, but things change I know.

As for Daniel now with his new project. I have soo much respect for him. He is still so passionate about music and that is always good. He is offering up a great opportunity for hopeful talents. Maybe they wont emulate the success of SG who could???? But its still a great opportunity for talented people to maybe get a shot and take it from there. I think what he is doing now is how he wanted it to be with SG but just couldnt get the dynamic to work like that.

Kat

<font color="#9966FF" size="1">[ March 09, 2005 06:59 AM: Message edited by: Kattitude ]</font>